Legislature(1993 - 1994)
03/11/1994 08:15 AM House RES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
March 11, 1994
8:15 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Bill Williams, Chairman
Representative Bill Hudson, Vice Chairman
Representative Con Bunde
Representative Pat Carney
Representative John Davies
Representative David Finkelstein
Representative Joe Green
Representative Jeannette James
Representative Eldon Mulder
MEMBERS ABSENT
None
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT
Representative Cliff Davidson
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
*HB 447: "An Act establishing the Afognak Island State
Park."
ADOPTED AND PASSED CSHB 447(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE
WITH A DO PASS RECOMMENDATION
WITNESS REGISTER
CRAIG TILLERY, Assistant Attorney General
Department of Law
1031 W. 4th Avenue
Anchorage, Alaska 99501
Phone: 269-5274
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided an overview of HB 447
NEIL JOHANNSEN, Director
Division of Parks and Outdoor Recreation
Department of Natural Resources
P.O. Box 107001
Anchorage, Alaska 99510-7001
Phone: 762-2600
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 447
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 447
SHORT TITLE: ESTABLISH AFOGNAK ISLAND STATE PARK
SPONSOR(S): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
02/04/94 2266 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
02/04/94 2266 (H) RESOURCES, FINANCE
02/04/94 2266 (H) -2 ZERO FISCAL NOTES (DPS,LAW)
2/4/94
02/04/94 2266 (H) -FISCAL NOTE (DNR) 2/4/94
02/04/94 2266 (H) GOVERNOR'S TRANSMITTAL LETTER
03/11/94 (H) RES AT 08:15 AM CAPITOL 124
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 94-30, SIDE A
Number 000
The House Resources Committee was called to order by
Chairman Bill Williams at 8:21 a.m. Members present at the
call to order were Representatives Williams, Bunde, Carney,
Green, James, and Mulder. Members absent were
Representatives Hudson, Davies, and Finkelstein.
HB 447 - ESTABLISH AFOGNAK ISLAND STATE PARK
CHAIRMAN BILL WILLIAMS announced there is a quorum present
and the committee will hear HB 447, a Governor's bill,
establishing the Afognak Island State Park. He said the
Exxon Oil Spill Settlement Trustees purchased Afognak Island
land and timber in 1993, and have offered to transfer
ownership to the state for use as a park. He noted the land
is currently being held in trust by the Nature Conservancy.
He stressed if the land is not legislatively designated as a
state park this session, the land will be transferred
instead to the federal government.
CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS said it is his understanding that the land
will be a park regardless of any legislature action. The
only question is whether it will be a state-owned and
managed park, or whether it will be a federal park. In
order for it to be a state park, HB 447 must pass this
session. He told committee members they have a proposed
committee substitute in their folders which was drafted to
clarify several points. First, this draft clarifies that
ongoing negotiations between the Exxon Trustees and the
owner of the subsurface estate can proceed. Language has
also been added to emphasize that use of private lands
adjoining the park will not be impaired, and that park
status will not alter the rights and obligations created by
the Road Use Agreement which has been in place since 1991.
(CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS noted for the record that REPRESENTATIVE
HUDSON joined the committee at 8:25 a.m.)
Number 037
CRAIG TILLERY, ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL, DEPARTMENT OF
LAW, stated HB 447 will create the Afognak Island State Park
and allow the state to receive land now being held in trust
by the Nature Conservancy. The bill is supported by the
borough of Kodiak, the city of Kodiak, the Kodiak Chamber of
Commerce, all major fishing organizations in the Kodiak
area, tour operators, visitors association, citizens and
Konkor Timber Products, the entity cutting timber on land
adjacent to the park. He said the land originally was owned
by Seal Bay Timber Company who was cutting timber there.
The Exxon Trustee Council looked at the land through its
imminent threat process for possible acquisition to protect
habitat of species and resources injured as a result of the
Exxon Valdez oil spill.
MR. TILLERY remarked that in looking at the land, the
Trustee Council did a ranking which broke down into two
highly ranked parcels and then everything else. The highly
ranked parcels were Kachemak Bay inholdings, which were
acquired and are now a part of Kachemak Bay State Park, and
the Seal Bay parcel. After negotiations with the owners,
the Trustee Council acquired the Seal Bay land. He noted
that the impetus to acquire the land was primarily that of
the federal government. The Department of the Interior
wished to acquire the land and add it to their wildlife
refuge. The Trustee Council resisted that notion, stating
the land, if acquired, had more of a direct relationship
with Shuyak State Park to the north, and the Council
ultimately prevailed.
MR. TILLERY said the Trustee Council agreed to give the
state first shot at the land; that is when the land was
acquired, if the state was able to create a state park to
hold the land, and accomplished that in one year, the state
would get it. If not, the land, which is now being held by
the Nature Conservancy, will be given to the federal
government. In that case, the land would initially go to
the Forest Service as part of Chugach National Forest and
what the Forest Service does with it would depend on whether
or not Congress enacts a bill to transfer the land to the
Department of the Interior.
Number 069
MR. TILLERY, referring to a map contained in a binder, (may
be found in the Resources Committee Room, Capitol #124, and
after the adjournment of the second session of the 18th
Alaska State Legislature, in the Legislative Reference
Library.) which committee members have, stated the land in
yellow is the land which was acquired from Seal Bay Timber
Company and will become the state park. In addition, the
strip of blue which was previously state-owned land will be
included in the boundaries of the state park. Marmot Island
is not included in the boundaries of the state park.
Referring to a more detailed map contained in the binder, he
pointed out existing roads, proposed cutting units, and
cutting units which have been clear cut. He said the
existing roads are subject to a road use agreement and the
state, under HB 447, will be subject to the road use
agreement. He stated there is no intention or is there the
ability to stop anyone from using the roads except for in
conforming with the terms of the road use agreement.
MR. TILLERY stated when the Trustee Council considered the
land acquisition, there were certain criteria which resulted
in the agreement to purchase. There are to be no commercial
timber harvests on the land because some of the resources
which were being protected by the acquisition of the land
need the forested area for their habitat. What the trustees
insisted upon, and what was also a part of the purchase
agreement is that these lands be specifically permitted for
sport, subsistence, personal use, hunting, fishing and
trapping. He said limited commercial use was guaranteed
under the ownership agreement which means there will be no
interference with the small guiding operations currently
ongoing. He explained those uses which the land is
currently being used for, with the exception of the
commercial timber operation, will remain.
Number 109
REPRESENTATIVE CON BUNDE stated the proposed cutting units
had been pointed out and asked if they are outside the park
boundaries.
MR. TILLERY said the dark crosses within the yellow (on the
map) are in the park.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked if they are proposed to cut.
MR. TILLERY stated they will not be cut. One of them,
however, has already been cut.
(CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS noted for the record that REPRESENTATIVES
FINKELSTEIN and DAVIDSON had joined the committee.)
REPRESENTATIVE JEANNETTE JAMES clarified that Mr. Tillery
had mentioned the blue section (on the map) is included in
the park.
MR. TILLERY replied that was correct and stated when that
section was reviewed, there was an attempt to determine why
the land was selected by the state. Based on the Department
of Natural Resources' (DNR) records, it was determined that
the land was selected for recreational purposes. He stated
DNR agrees that section should be included in the park.
Number 130
REPRESENTATIVE PAT CARNEY asked what percentage of the land
mass had been logged.
MR. TILLERY said the light cross checked (on the map) on the
yellow has been logged. He noted in terms of timber values,
there were significant timber values in certain areas and
appraisals showed very little timber values in other areas
(he pointed them out on the map). He stated the two
appraisals are in members' binders under tabs 12 and 13.
REPRESENTATIVE BILL HUDSON asked who maintains the roads and
inquired if there will be any additional road maintenance
responsibilities by the state as a result of the land
acquisition.
MR. TILLERY replied no and said the state will be putting to
bed those roads not required for other owners to cut them,
to the extent that other lands that are cutting do require
the use of the roads, it will be their responsibility to
maintain them. He said actually the seller will be putting
the roads to bed.
Number 146
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES wondered about the Native land and
Tonki Cape and asked if there are any rights other than
hunting and fishing, and if there are access points which
need to be preserved.
MR. TILLERY responded that section is owned by Afognak Joint
Venture, which is another timber company. He felt the
section of land pointed out does not contain useful timber,
but does have the best access. He stressed it is not a
hunting and fishing area. He pointed out that when the
trustees spoke with Native landowners about acquiring the
lands, they were told the lands are not traditional lands,
they are not used for hunting and fishing and they rarely
visit them. The lands were selected as a business venture
and that is why they were willing to sell them.
REPRESENTATIVE CARNEY asked why roads are being put to bed.
MR. TILLERY replied the roads are being put to bed because
the roads are no longer needed for cutting and pointed out
that putting the roads to bed prevents erosion. Otherwise,
creeks, etc., are created which go down the middle of the
roads. He explained to create the roads, they take out the
overburden, chew up the rocks, and mash them down. He said
without putting in water bars, etc., there is erosion and a
big mess.
REPRESENTATIVE CARNEY asked how long the roads have been
there.
MR. TILLERY replied he is not sure, but he knows of one
which was put in last year.
REPRESENTATIVE CARNEY asked if they are putting the roads to
bed to prevent access.
MR. TILLERY said no. He stated there is no access for
vehicles. The roads tend to grow up thick in alders.
(CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS noted for the record that REPRESENTATIVE
DAVIES joined the committee at 8:37 a.m.)
Number 186
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON said in reviewing the acquisition
methodology he is trying to determine who the Seal Bay
Timber Company is and the connection of the Nature
Conservancy to the land.
MR. TILLERY responded the Seal Bay Timber Company along with
Akhiok-Kaguyak, and Old Harbor Joint Venture were originally
all part of the Afognak Joint Venture. They split up after
deciding they could manage their lands better themselves and
divided their lands. The lands being discussed are lands
the Seal Bay Timber Company received. The Nature
Conservancy was brought into the process because the
trustees did not have an existing state park. The trustees
wanted to make sure that there was no claim which could
attach to these lands under the Mental Health Trust Lands
dispute. The trustees were advised the best way to assure
that was for the state not to take title until it had a
state park or other legislatively designated area to receive
the lands.
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked who is the Nature Conservancy.
MR. TILLERY replied it is an organization which works with
businesses to acquire critical habitats for biological
diversity. Susan Ruddy is the Chair, Governor Hickel is on
the board, and BP plays an active role.
Number 209
MR. TILLERY pointed out there are several amendments which
are reflected in the committee substitute. On page 1, lines
5, 6, and 7 there is an addition which reads "subject to
valid existing rights including those rights created by the
Afognak Island Road Use Agreement executed on July 24, 1991,
and as amended from time to time..." He said the amendment
is to clarify and give some comfort to Konkor Forest
Products and other timber companies in the area that there
is no attempt being made to change the Road Use Agreement.
He stated on page 2, beginning on line 7, there is a new
subsection (c).
MR. TILLERY said there were corrections made to the legal
description and after checking with DNR, none of the changes
cause any problems with them. On page 2, line 13, it reads
"including both the surface and subsurface estate,". He
stated mentioning the subsurface estate was added to clarify
that if the subsurface estate is acquired, it will become
part of the park. The subsurface estate is owned by Kodiak
and at the time the sale was being negotiated, because of
the eminent threat, it was important to address the surface
estate issue. He added there is no threat in the subsurface
estate because state and federal agencies have looked at it
have said there are no mineral values in the subsurface
estate. Kodiak is negotiating with the trustees to sell the
subsurface estate and it is very likely the trustees will
acquire it. He stressed this language clarifies the
subsurface estate will be included in the park.
MR. TILLERY explained on page 6, there is a change in the
language in the final section and that change is to remove
an ambiguity as to whether the subsurface estate becomes a
part of the park.
Number 258
REPRESENTATIVE CARNEY said in regard to the last section on
page 6, Additions To Park, he does not understand the last
sentence. He asked if the sentence means the state cannot
buy land within the park.
MR. TILLERY responded the language means the state can
acquire the land and water within the boundaries of the park
but cannot use eminent domain to acquire any land within the
park. He said the trustees do not believe there is any land
inside the boundaries that the state will not own except for
the subsurface estate.
REPRESENTATIVE CARNEY said he did not read it that way. He
read it as saying the state could acquire it only by eminent
domain.
MR. TILLERY pointed out that if there is a desire to add
anything else to the park, the trustees must come back to
the legislature.
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES clarified the only land or water which
might be wanted is the Native parcel.
MR. TILLERY said the only land the trustees are actively
seeking is the subsurface estate. The Native land is not
within the boundaries of the park. He said Afognak Joint
Venture may be interested at some point in selling that land
to the Trustee Council and if they do, it will make an
obvious addition to the park. He pointed out since the land
is outside the boundaries of the park, the legislature would
have to act on acquiring the land.
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES felt the sentence on page 6, lines 26
and 27 is misleading and serves little purpose.
MR. TILLERY said the final section of HB 447, lines 24, 25,
26, and 27, attempts to clarify how the park will be
composed. The first sentence says "land and water outside
of the boundaries." He stressed the boundaries are
carefully delineated by section, excluding certain things,
and including certain things. He pointed out the sentence
says the state can only go beyond the boundaries to add
something to the state park by an act of the legislature.
He stated the second sentence is intended to say that the
commissioner may acquire land and water within the
boundaries and added the commissioner will acquire the lands
by deed through the Nature Conservancy. In addition, the
commissioner may acquire the subsurface estate at a future
time if the Trustee Council were to buy it and give it to
the state. He reiterated that the second sentence says the
commissioner may acquire the land and water within the
boundaries, which the state does not own presently, except
by eminent domain.
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES expressed concern that the title to the
final section is Additions To Park and the last sentence
seems to only relate to getting the park in the first place.
She felt it is not necessarily an addition to the park and
did not feel the sentence fits with the rest of the
paragraph.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said it is the subsurface estate.
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES stated the section does not say that,
it says land and water. She thought the sentence is
confusing and separate to the title, Additions To Park. If
there is a desire to say that the commissioner cannot
acquire land by eminent domain, she felt it should be a
sentence of its own.
MR. TILLERY said if the legislature passes HB 447 and the
Governor signs it into law, the park is going to consist of
the blue strip (on map). Within a month, title to the
yellow (on map) will be received from the Nature Conservancy
and the commissioner will have acquired the land by deed.
Then within some period of time, the Trustee Council will
purchase the subsurface estate which will be deeded by
Kodiak to the state of Alaska and the commissioner will
acquire the subsurface estate under the terms of the last
sentence. Then the park will be whole.
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES said she understood, but felt there is
a need to have "except by eminent domain" be a sentence
which says "may not" be acquired by eminent domain. She
stated she liked the language as it was in the original HB
447.
Number 385
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE made a MOTION to ADOPT CSHB 447(RES).
CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS asked if there were any objections.
Hearing none, the MOTION PASSED.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVID FINKELSTEIN asked if there was any
consideration of including the joint venture land at the
head of Tonki Bay in the boundaries of the park. He said
often the approach with parks is to draw a line around
possible future additions, even though it is private land,
in case they decide to do an exchange or sell it at some
later point.
MR. TILLERY stated Afognak Joint Venture owns the land and
the timber on the land is not commercially viable. He said
his guess is that the Venture would like to sell the land to
the Trustee Council and if so, it makes sense for the
Council to give the land to the state. However, the
Council's view was that the legislature would be more
comfortable with having control over any additions to the
park. If the legislature wishes to draw the boundary to the
outside of the land it is not a problem.
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN pointed out that if current state
parks are reviewed, there is usually private lands within
the boundaries. The laws and usually the specific
authorizing legislation recognizes that there is no affect
on the private land within the park, but rather it is
recognition that the private land is an integral part of the
park unit and that if the land is ever acquired, it will
become part of the park. He thought it makes sense that
private land be contained in the park.
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES believed it is a matter of philosophy
and one that she does not adhere to. She felt it was
infringing upon private property as to what they may or may
not want to do with their property in the future.
Number 438
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE stated in other parks where the state
has inholdings, the inholdings are an ongoing source of
concern, trouble, financial challenge, etc. He said he
would not be anxious to expand inholdings in state parks.
He agreed that if the land being discussed ever became
available, it should be added to the park.
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked if there were any mental health
lands attachments to any of the parcel.
MR. TILLERY said there are no mental health lands claims in
the land. The Council's concern was that in looking at the
settlement, the parcel could perhaps have been claimed
having not had a legislatively designated area and they did
not want to have to buy the land twice. He added a title
search has been conducted and there are no mental health
claims.
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON stated he would like to have a current
update on the monies received through the trust and how the
money has been used.
Number 490
NEIL JOHANNSEN, DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF PARKS AND OUTDOOR
RECREATION, DNR, testified via teleconference and expressed
support of HB 447 and the amendments. He stated the area
has some high recreational values and hunting, fishing,
trapping, and subsistence, is protected. (Indiscernible)
recreational development out there including the provision
of public use cabins. He said the state does have Exxon
Criminal Settlement Funds which the department is currently
working on a plan on how to use the funds. He felt there
should be a few public use cabins and trail development so
kayakers, hunters, fishermen, etc., can enjoy the park. He
urged the committee to pass HB 447 out of committee.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked someone to speak to the fiscal
note and the fact that a free park is going to cost $33,000.
MR. JOHANNSEN stated the department has revised the fiscal
note down to $17,000 which is the minimum funding for a
40,000 acre state park to enable the establishment of public
use cabins and provide transportation funds, enabling
department personnel to occasionally visit the park. He
urged committee members to support the fiscal note.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE thought he had heard Mr. Johannsen say
that the Exxon criminal money would be used for public use
cabins and asked if money contained in the fiscal note will
be used only for transportation.
MR. JOHANNSEN replied the money will be used for
transportation and temporary staff in the summer months.
Number 578
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES asked if there were any plans to
implement fees.
MR. JOHANNSEN stated yes there will be fees but he felt the
fees should be tied to public use cabins.
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES asked if the revenues could be
reflected in the fiscal note.
MR. JOHANNSEN replied revenue could be reflected in the
fiscal note, but added it will be about two years before the
revenue will be generated.
Number 625
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked if DNR has ever gone to the
Trustee Council to seek funding for management of newly
acquired lands. He thought that is a legitimate fund which
could be established and managed by the administrators of
the trustee fund on a yearly basis and preclude putting
general fund money into the fund.
MR. JOHANNSEN responded they have. In the past, he had
discussions with the past Attorney General, Charlie Cole and
Mr. Cole was clear that funds were not to be used for
operational purposes.
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON felt the legislature ought to go on
record supporting the use of funds for management of newly
acquired lands. He felt the trustees ought to reconsider
and on an annual basis, be open to consideration of a budget
request from various agencies in the state to conduct the
best use of the lands now set aside. He stressed using the
$900 million only to acquire property, place the property in
special use parks, and then expect the balance of the
general fund to be responsible for their management is not
the best use of the money.
TAPE 94-30, SIDE B
Number 000
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON made a motion to MOVE CSHB 447(RES)
with revised fiscal notes out of committee with INDIVIDUAL
RECOMMENDATIONS.
CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS asked if there were any objections.
Hearing none, the MOTION PASSED.
ANNOUNCEMENTS
CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS announced the committee will meet Monday,
March 14, at 8:15 a.m. to hear HJR 59 and HB 496.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to come before the House
Resources Committee, Chairman Williams adjourned the meeting
at 9:07 a.m.
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